Ask attorneys why they're looking at a new practice area and the answer is rarely “I want to bill more hours.” It's usually burnout — most often from family law, in Sonia Lakhany's experience.

In this Smith.ai Masters session, Sonia Lakhany — a trademark attorney of 16+ years who grew her own practice from multi-six to seven figures, and founder of 4L Education — walked through trademark prosecution as a practice area: what it is, what the work cycle looks like, how attorneys price it, where the clients come from, and the two genuine drawbacks. Hosted by Maddy Martin, GM of Legal at Smith.ai, with an unusually heavy live Q&A.

Key takeaways

• Trademarks are federal: one bar license in any state lets you serve clients in every state. “One bar, any bar.” No special court admission required.
• The lifecycle runs search → application → roughly 18 months of waiting → office action (three months to respond) → registration → renewals at 5 and 10 years. The gaps are the feature, not the bug.
• Billing is flat fee, not hourly. Two common models: à la carte per deliverable, or an all-inclusive up-front package covering search, application, office actions, and one class of USPTO fees.
• Startup overhead is close to zero. No required software; the USPTO's own application center now tracks filed marks for you.
• The highest-leverage referral sources are people who encounter trademarks daily — franchise attorneys, brokers, and consultants — because federal registration is a prerequisite for franchise paperwork.
• Two real catches: malpractice premiums rise with the percentage of your practice you declare as trademarks, and you have to educate your own market, because most business owners think their LLC or domain registration protects the name.

Trademarks vs. copyright vs. patent

Sonia opened by clearing up the most common confusion. Intellectual property has three major practice areas, and only one of them requires a science background.

• Trademarks protect a word, design, logo, phrase, tagline, or slogan used to brand a product or service.
• Copyright (the © symbol — think C for creative) protects creative works of authorship: scripts, songs, lyrics, paintings, photographs.
• Patents cover inventions — software, pharmaceutical formulas, technical mechanisms — and do require the technical background.

On the symbols: TM and SM are informal notices with no real legal meaning — they signal intent, not registration. ® is the only designation reserved for a completed USPTO registration, and it can't be used until the certificate is in hand.

Her illustration of how conflicts are assessed: Dove Soap and Dove Chocolate coexist happily, because they're doing different things under the same name. The closer two marks sit in the marketplace, the bigger the problem for whichever party used it second.

The work cycle: a slow cooker, not a litigation calendar

The stage structure is what makes the practice area location- and schedule-friendly. A mark gets searched for conflicts, an application is filed electronically with the USPTO, and then roughly 18 months to two years pass before the firm hears anything back.

You can think of it kind of like a crock pot or a slow cooker of law practice areas, where you can set it and forget it, because there's physically nothing you're able to do for a year and a half.

When an office action does issue, the response deadline is three months — a cushion that would be unrecognizable to anyone used to a court calendar. After registration, renewal and maintenance filings come due at the five- and ten-year marks and at regular intervals after that.

Sonia's framing throughout: this is additive. It's a new revenue stream you can run in the background of an existing practice, not a transition you have to commit to.

Why the clients are in a good mood

Sonia calls trademarks “happy law,” and the reasoning is more practical than it sounds: your clients' emotional state becomes yours. Trademark clients are building businesses and brands. They chose to be there.

She compared it to family law with an airport metaphor — the constant rush of running late for a flight, versus the notification that the flight is delayed and you suddenly have twenty minutes to breathe. Attorneys arriving from high-drama practice areas often don't know what to do with the absence of stress at first.

Structurally, it sits alongside estate planning as a preventative rather than reactive practice: clients come with a think-ahead mindset.

We joke that trademarks are kind of like a will or a trust — but for your brand.

Pricing: flat fees, two models

Answering a live question about fees, Sonia laid out the two pricing structures she teaches and uses. Both are flat fee — hourly billing is essentially absent from the practice area.

• À la carte, per deliverable. The client pays for the search; you deliver it. If the results support moving forward, they pay for the application. If an office action issues, you quote the response.
• All-inclusive up-front package. A higher single fee covering the search, the application, office actions if received, and one class of USPTO fees. Sonia developed this model in her own practice and reports it works better on efficiency, client satisfaction, and revenue.

She put the average value of a new trademark filing package in the $3,500 to $5,500 range, with renewal and maintenance filings billed separately. Deadline tracking she provides as a courtesy rather than a billable — not an obligation under the federal rules, but standard practice.

Where the clients come from

The marketing answer that drew the most interest wasn't about ads. Sonia's approach is to find the people who encounter trademark questions far more often than a trademark attorney ever will — what she calls the “golden dozen.”

Her lead example: franchise attorneys, brokers, and consultants. Federal trademark registration is required in most cases to complete franchise paperwork, so franchise professionals encounter the need constantly.

One franchise attorney theoretically could be responsible for your first six months of revenue, because they just see it all day.

Because the practice area is federal, the geographic net is national — which makes online marketing and content genuinely worthwhile in a way it often isn't for a state-bound practice. She teaches both extrovert-friendly (networking, coffees, referral relationships) and introvert-friendly (content and online) approaches.

The two catches

Sonia was direct that no practice area is perfect, and named two.

1. Malpractice insurance costs more. The premium impact scales with how long you've practiced and what percentage of your practice you declare as trademarks. Her practical tip: declare a small percentage while you're starting and learning, and increase it as your volume grows.

2. You have to educate your own market. Like estate planning, trademarks are preventative, which means the client doesn't arrive knowing they have a problem. Most business owners believe their LLC registration or their domain name protects their brand name — and Secretaries of State don't talk to each other, let alone to the USPTO. Being comfortable explaining that gap is part of the job.

AI, and where the demand is heading

Asked about recent changes in the field, Sonia pointed less to case law than to what's driving new filings. Cannabis has generated developing case law as state-level approvals spread; crypto produced a wave when it peaked. AI is the current one — and, in her view, the biggest.

She flagged NIL — name, image, and likeness — as the area to watch, with questions around protecting voices and appearances arriving fast. Her read is that this is an early-adopter moment for attorneys willing to build expertise now.

Anytime there's a business being started or already successful — where there's a name, there is probably a trademark question at least, if not a full matter to be served.

On volume: more than 400,000 trademark applications had been filed year to date by mid-Q2, against roughly 800,000 for the prior full year — a ~7% year-over-year increase that she expects to hold.

She's also building AI directly into how the work gets done, including Claude skills and projects for trademark workflows, and expects tools that attorneys previously had to pay for — like deadline tracking — to become table stakes.

Answers to the live Q&A

A sample of what the audience asked, and what Sonia said:

• Is there a “trademark pending” equivalent to “patent pending”? Technically correct but rarely used. The real signal is the number: a serial number is assigned on submission and means pending; a registration number means it's done.
• Do you need admission to a federal bar? No. One bar, any bar. If your jurisdiction has quirks, call the ethics hotline — that's what it's for.
• How do you handle out-of-state clients and state-level registrations? Carefully, to avoid unauthorized practice. State registrations run through that state's Secretary of State and are far simpler to search than the USPTO database, but for state-specific work, collaborate with local counsel.
• How much startup capital? Effectively none beyond learning the practice area. She didn't pay for software until she'd filed at least a few dozen marks.

Where Smith.ai fits

A national client base is the upside of a federal practice area — and also the reason inbound calls arrive across every time zone while you're mid-search or mid-response. Smith.ai's 24/7 answering and intake service qualifies those callers, books consultations, and keeps the phone from interrupting focused filing work.

This session is part of the Smith.ai Masters series, our ongoing webinar program hosted by Maddy Martin, GM of Legal at Smith.ai, where industry experts share practical playbooks on marketing, intake, operations, and practice growth. Follow us on LinkedIn to keep up with upcoming sessions.

Full webinar transcript

This transcript was auto-generated from the webinar recording and lightly edited for readability. Speaker labels mark the main turns in the conversation.

Recording begins shortly after the introduction.

Maddy Martin: States, regardless of where you're licensed and what that means for your income potential, how to evaluate whether trademark law is the right fit for your specific background, personality, and income goals, and how the explosion of the brand economy and the rise of AI are creating a higher demand for trademark protection than ever before. So, without further ado, Sonya, thanks for being here, and take it away.

Sonia Lakhany: Oh, thank you, thank you, and thank you to all of you who are here today. Let me go ahead and Share my screen so that I can show you my slides All right Alright, so I'm assuming everyone can see my slides. If you have any trouble, just let me know and I will open up the chat. The way I like to do things is as much as we can in a virtual webinar space is to try and make this as much of a dialogue as we can. And so you don't want to think of this as me talking at you, but you want it to feel like we're having a conversation, at least I do.

And so I have the chat open on my screen. At any point If you have a question, a comment, a thought, please just type it in there. I have my eye on it. You're not interrupting me, you're not bothering me, because that way we can make sure that, you know, as the thought enters your mind, we can talk about it or address your questions. And if you can also keep it open, because I'll be asking you guys some questions, too, just to get an idea of how I can best use this hour to serve you and make it a valuable Hour of takeaway knowledge. So, with that said, thank you, Maddy, for the introduction.

As she said, my name is Sonia Lakhani And I am a trademark attorney. I have been one for, gosh, 16 plus years at this point, so it's been a while And Oh, hang on, sorry. I don't know what's going on with my Slides here Sorry, guys, give me one sec. My computer is glitching for some reason. There we go. Okay. So sorry about that. I am a trademark attorney. I have been one for 16 plus years, and I'm here to talk to you guys about the practice area that lets you work from anywhere. And so before we dive in, if you guys want to stay connected, I'm a big fan of socials across all platforms And I really like to chit chat and DM and stuff, so if you are an Instagram user, follow me, I'll follow you back, trademark LawyerLady.

If you are at all at any point interested in trademarks, even if you've never even heard of them and you're about to find out what they are today, so you're super, super new to the field. Go ahead and still join us. I have a Facebook group for trademark attorneys, but like I said, you don't have to be currently practicing this area to join us and be a fly on the wall to our discussions, and we have a lot of great conversations in there about software and about client scenarios and Just supporting one another. And then, if all else fails, if you want to connect with me on LinkedIn, there is a QR code for that.

And just by brief introduction, so 16 plus years of practicing trademarks, I've had my own practice for 11 of those 16 years. And in that time frame, I grew that practice from multi-six to seven figures in revenue. And it was a big feat, but at the same time I realized that this is a practice area that a lot of people don't know about. And so as I was traveling and enjoying the lifestyle and virtual aspects of trademarks, a lot of people started to ask me, how did you learn to do that? Why did you get to enjoy your life? And I'm over here stuck at a desk, or I'm stuck at a litigation calendar.

And so, I realized I learned on the job in different positions I had as an associate over the years, and I kind of had stitched together my learning, because, you know, how many... first poll of the day is put a 1 in the chat if you agree, or you would say that law school did not exactly teach us how to practice trademark law, right? Put a one in the chat if you feel the same way. That's how I felt. And so, we really don't have a lot of resources to learn how to actually practice any area of law, much less just trademarks specifically. And so, almost 10 years ago, I created a course called Two Weeks to Trademarks, and to this point.

Hundreds of attorneys have taken and started growing their trademark practices to the tune of some very impressive numbers. So, we've got people doing 30K a month,$ 50K a month, and I know this is really hard to believe, but these are real attorneys making$ 100K a month, back to back to back, practicing only trademark law and nothing else. And so, it is a really lucrative, really impressive practice area, and I feel like a lot of people just need to know a little more about what their options are And so in the theme of law school not teaching us how to practice trademark law, I founded 4L Education, so I wanted an umbrella brand, like any trademark attorney wants a good name.

I wanted an umbrella brand to capture not only two weeks of trademarks, but all the other courses and trainings that I have done over the years, and a couple years ago, I am pleased to share that we were able to partner with the American Bar Association, and so now, we are able to provide CLE credit for most of our courses in most states. As a little bonus and a little thank you for the people that take it. So hopefully that's a little nice little added perk. And so before we get into trademarks, I would love to just kind of get to know you guys a little bit about why you're here, right?

So put a one in the chat if you have heard about trademarks, or this has been something of continued interest for you, right? Put a 1. Put a 2 in the chat if you're sick of whatever you're already doing, and the aspect of lifestyle and being able to work from anywhere. And if you are in, too, burned out from a different practice area, would you mind sharing what that area or areas are that you're sick of, because I have an inkling that it's One of a few, yep, family law always comes to mind. I have a lot of refugees in my community from the family law practice area, and you would be surprised at how transferable a lot of your skill sets are, and it's kind of like running through the airport when you're late for a flight and you're not sure you're gonna make it, and then you get a notification that the flight's been delayed and you're like, oh I have, like, an extra 20 minutes to breathe.

What's this like? And so the family law feeling is that rushing, rushing, stress, stress, stress. And then when you get that really pleasant notification, you're like, that's like welcoming you into trademarks, because you can just relax And it feels a little foreign, you're not sure what to do with this extra time. You're not sure what to do with this newfound lack of stress. You're like, I'm just used to running around all the time, right? So that's kind of how I like to think of different practice areas. So, I have had a lot of conversations, and a lot of attorneys from different practice areas come to me from a point of view of just wanting something a little easier, right?

Just wanting something a little bit, just less daunting, less stressful. So, you're in the right place. So those of you who are brand new to trademarks, which it sounds like there's a lot of you today, what is trademarks? Let's just get into it, right? So this is one of the three major practice areas under intellectual property. So the other two, if you're curious, are copyright and patent. And these get confused because a lot of people think, oh, well, I have to have a science background. I have to You know, have had a certain undergraduate and that is true for patents. So I don't practice patent locks.

I do not have that background. And the good news is, is that you don't need to be there because we're focusing on trademarks. And so trademarks specifically is protection in a word, a design, aka a logo like the many that you see here A phrase, tagline, slogan. So, anything that is being used to brand a product, brand a service, that is when you want to think, oh, trademarks are kicking in. Not to be confused with copyright, which is... that's the circle C, right? So you see the designations here for trademarks. You have TM, SM, and CircleR. And I'll share what those mean in a moment, but you may have seen the C circle around it, and that's copyright.

Again, different practice area. You can think of C for creative, meaning creative works of authorship. So under the federal law All of these areas are protected, so they're not state-specific, typically. And so, with copyright and it being creative works of authorship, you're thinking protection in a work of art itself. So, a movie script, a song, lyrics, beats a painting, a photograph, things like that. So that's not this. That is in its own area of law. I just don't think it's as lucrative as trademarks, and it's not a huge part of my practice, so I don't talk about it as much. Patents, like I said, that's more of a sciency invention related protection, and that's going to be in the software, the pharmaceutical formula, you know, anything sort of technical that makes the invention what it is in a unique way.

And so, again, that is a different aspect. And so you can think of trademarks as whatever we're calling something and branding it, that's when trademarks kick in. And so TM and SM are for trademark and service mark. Those are basically informal designations that kind of indicate, you know, we intend for this to be a trademark, a notice to the general public But it's not registered, for whatever reason. Maybe it hasn't been approved yet, maybe it hasn't been applied for yet, maybe there's some myriad of situations, but TM and SM are very casual and don't really actually have any real legal meaning. Circle R is where we're at, right?

That's where we want to be. That is the only designation that is used for a full USPTO, meaning United States Patent and Trademark Office, true registration. And that means that the process has been completed and not only has the application been submitted, but it's been approved, right? So you have you have to actually wait until you have the certificate before you're able to say Or before you're able to use the circle R symbol. And so, in terms of the stages of servicing your client, right, if you're an attorney looking to think about whether you want to add trademarks to your practice and to practice this area This is sort of what your routine's going to look like, and you notice there's no calendar, there's nobody's crying, there's nobody screaming at you, there's no indication of working weekends, which is really nice, or holidays for that matter.

This is what we consider very happy law Our attorneys in trademarks are typically really happy because our clients are usually in a really good mood. And so what your clients are spills onto you, right? So if your clients are stressing, and they're crying, and everything is chaotic, then that's gonna spill onto your quality of life, and vice versa. If they're happy, or... and they're building businesses, they're building brands. Trademarks is something that people typically want to do, and so that's why it kind of translates into our quality. And so here's what your sort of life cycle will look like. The very beginning, when someone comes to you and says, you know, I have a name, I have a slogan, I have a logo And I want to own it.

I want it to be mine for the business that I'm doing. So that mark has to be searched for conflicts. So we need to see who's using it, what's out there, what type of business, and the closer it is in similarity, the bigger of a problem it's going to be For probably your client, right? So, you want to think about Dove Soap versus Dove Chocolate. They're both allowed to coexist in the marketplace, and they both are allowed to have trademark registrations because they're doing different things with the same name, right? But if they were in a closer space, then we would have more of a problem, right?

And one would not be able to follow the other. So usually the one who's second and more would be the one that's the problem. So that's the senior use. The senior user is the one who uses it first. And so, if the mark search looks decent and there's not any real huge risks, then we go ahead and apply for a trademark registration with the USPTO. And that is a very... one in two are sort of the major first two steps And they're the most time-intensive, right? And they're back-to-back. But after you apply for a trademark, it goes to the PTO. Again, this is electronically, right, so you're not filing anything in court, and it is about 18 months to close to maybe even two years in some cases before you hear back, but usually around the year, year and a half mark is when you get the first response from the USPTO, and that's usually in the form of an office action, if it's even issued.

A lot of times they're not. And that's, again, not a registration. That is not a certificate. That is not when your client gets the trademark. That is simply when it hits somebody's desk to say, okay, what issues are we going to have, if any, what's going on? And let's go from there, right? And so You can start to think, okay, well, if you're already doing an area of law, and you already have a busy schedule, this is something that kind of can run in the background, right? You can think of it kind of like a crock pot or a slow cooker of law practice areas, where you can set it and forget it, because there's physically nothing you're able to do for a year and a half, and so what could you use that year and a half to do?

Well, you could use it to continue developing and marketing new business, which we'll talk about some ways to do that today, because that's a question you may have in mind is, you know, how am I going to market for this brand new practice area Or, you could use it to toggle back to the cases and matters that you already have that are already making you money, right? So this is simply adding, potentially, a new revenue stream to your law firm, and not intended to transition or replace it if that's too big of a step for you, right? So, there's a lot of ways to think about the addition to trademarks to what you're already doing.

And by its nature, like I said, it works in stages, and so it adds to that lifestyle friendliness of just not having to visit a file every single day, or to wonder what the next deadline is and what's happening. The deadlines for office actions may be a pleasant surprise to those of you who are used to a really stressful core calendar, but our dead months, or deadlines are three months apart. So, think about it. You could get it done and then be free for a while, or you could be doing a lot of other things, or enjoying your life, or some free time, God forbid, and then come back to it, but you have three months to assess any deadline and to file a response.

So There's a nice little cushion that lets you operate in stages, and so you may have a search phase where you're submitting a lot of marks for searches, and then you may turn around and assess all of those, and then it's kind of like an x-ray, right, to see what's out there. And then you may have a phase where then you apply on majority of those, right? And then, like I said, 18 months, you're just hanging, and then you can come back to what you need. When you get an office action, you can deal with it. So aside from those first three major stages, there are renewal and maintenance filings that come into play at regular intervals after the registration day, so when you finally get that certificate after a couple of years, right, 18 months to hear back, call it another three months to respond to an office action, a few more months of administrative review and stages that again, you can't really do anything about And then it registers finally, hopefully, and then at 5-year, 10-year, and so on marks, there are renewal and maintenance filings.

And so this is one of many examples where there is so much built-in repeat business and repeat work And so it is the gift that keeps on giving. So, I know that a lot of the family law jokes are that, you know, you have repeat clientele doing multiple divorces, but that's just more headache, right, usually. And so, this is repeat work for the same client, but being able to add value in different ways, which is really nice. And so when do trademarks arise, right? Well, they're a subset of business transactional law. And so, what that means is that anytime there is a discussion mention of formation of a new business, obviously there's a naming process.

Anytime someone is starting anything, yourself included, you had to call your law firm something, right? Smith.ai had to choose a name for their virtual receptionist service, so that's the most common time we talk about trademarks is when there's a formation of a new business, sort of on the heels of that, we also see the trademark discussion when someone has found out about it being a thing that, oh, trademarks is a thing, I need to own my name. Whoops Right? I thought that was the LLC formation. I thought that was Secretary of State. I thought that was GoDaddy, right? I bought my domain name. I mean, what do you mean I don't own it?

You know, own my name. But it's you own your LLC registration, and you own a domain name. Those are not owning your federal trademark, which is across the United States, which is what makes this a federal practice area So Secretary of states don't talk to each other, and they most certainly do not talk to the USPTO. So it is an area of quite a bit misunderstanding out there. And so, a lot of times what we see is business owners coming to us and saying, oh my gosh, you know, I didn't realize that trademarks are even a thing, and I really should be you know, thinking about this, this is something that I really should be sort of, like, why didn't I know about this?

I've been operating my business for however many years. And so, that's another aspect where we see the trademark discussion come up. I'm going to visit the chat and just see if there are some questions

Maddy Martin: Yeah, there's a bunch of questions. Yeah, let's take a look. There are. Okay, do you want me to read them to you? Just because I've been keeping track. Sure Okay, so we'll start with the bottom up, actually. So Jay asked, you know, I've seen patent pending. Is there an equivalent to trademark pending?

Sonia Lakhany: There is, it's not a phrase we use commonly. And that's because I think the patent pending can sometimes make a decision between whether it's eligible for startup funding or for things like that. And so more of a question often is, is it patent pending? Trademark pending is definitely technically correct. It's just not a phrase we use very often. The more different sort of designation is serial number versus registration number. Serial number is assigned to the application as soon as you hit submit and file And it stays with it through the life of the application, no matter what stages it goes through. And then when it hits registration and you get that certificate, then you get a registration number.

And the serial number is always going to be a part of it also. So our designation in our world is if you see a serial number, that's your indication that it's pending, so to speak, and then if you see a registration number, that means we're done sign seal, delivered You wouldn't just show your serial number if you had a registration number. Right. Okay. Correct. You'd be very proud of that because it takes a lot of time. Yeah. And money sometimes Right, right, exactly.

Maddy Martin: Okay, so next question, is there a need to be admitted into a certain court for trademark law?

Sonia Lakhany: No, isn't that so nice, too? I tell you what, you know, I'm trademark lawyer lady. I have been for decades now at this point. And everyone is like, gosh, Sonya, you just, you really did something impressive with this one. And I'm like, I didn't. I cannot as much as I would want to take credit for the dream of a practice area, I cannot What I can take credit for is understanding very early on the potential of this, using that potential, seeing the opportunity, and growing my practice, and realizing the lessons that are teachable and transferable to then create this course program. And so I know nobody asked it yet, but I still do practice, I still have my law firm, and it keeps me very busy.

So this is simply... well, it started as a passion project, because I really thought more people should know, and then it turned into a business when we started calling it 4L and really ran with it. So, yeah, no special court required. Isn't that so great?

Maddy Martin: Awesome. So Matt Grossland has a few questions here. I'm going to try and summarize them. So first is how to break into the market, which I think is something that you're actually going to cover a little bit later. So do you want to tackle that now or do you want to tackle that later?

Sonia Lakhany: I can briefly speak on it now, because it is a valid question, and one that I would be thinking about too. It's something that I think about still all the time because marketing is the beginning of the life cycle of your whole firm, right? And I say this often jokingly, you know, we just saw that the Met Gala took place. Imagine if someone sent you a ball gown or a suit, and it's beautiful, and everything of your dreams, and you weren't invited to the Met Gala. You have nowhere to wear it to. And so I think of learning a practice area, any practice area, the same way, which is It is no fun to learn a field if you have nobody to do it for, right?

That is silly and a waste of time and money, and we don't do that around here. So, we do talk extremely extensively in the course and program called Two Weeks to Trademarks, which I will share in a little bit, about how to break into this in terms of marketing So the quick answer is that there are groups of people that will see trademarks far more often than you and I ever will because they're in that world and it's a natural part of something else that they do. So, for example, a lot of people don't know this But franchising, franchising attorneys, brokers, consultants, obviously the practice of franchise law, that is one of the number one areas where they see trademarks regularly, and because you need a federal trademark registration, in most cases to file and complete the franchise paperwork in order to, you know, be able to license your brand and have multiple locations and things like that.

A lot of people don't know that. And so that's just one teensy example of the things that someone who's been doing it for 16 years knows, and other people don't, right? And so it's a kind of a secret loophole. So instead of you trying to go out and find your own clients, which of course is one avenue, one of the things that I teach is working smarter, not harder. So There are about what I call the golden dozen of people like that, right? It's like, well, if I just know one franchise attorney, let me reach out, let me get coffee. So this idea of what's networking, right?

And it doesn't have to be this route. There are lots of ways to market trademarks, but this is one And so one franchise attorney theoretically could be responsible for your first six months of revenue because they just see it all day. And so they could say to themselves, you know, they could say to the client that is talking to them and doing a consult, oh, you need to talk to so-and-so Because they're going to do your trademark, and then when you're done, you come right back, right? So that's one example is the golden dozen that I call it, of people that see trademarks far more often than we ever will.

And then, of course, there's your own marketing efforts, which can be split into The types that work well for introverted personalities and extroverted personalities, so because it's a federal practice area, meaning anywhere in the country, and obviously so can you, because it is federal, your net obviously opens up quite a bit wider. So I hope that helps to shine some insight, but I'll talk about that, of course, more in a little bit too.

Maddy Martin: So Matt's other questions are related to sort of the extent of fees and time for completing services. So like, what would it be for a typical MARC registration service? Are you also charging for deadline deadline reminders post registration, you know, things like that

Sonia Lakhany: Yeah, so there are two ways to price for trademarks. I teach an entire module in the course called the pricing playbook. So one of the things that I care a lot about when sharing this practice area and teaching it is that it's the core of the practice area, you know the stages, how to search, how to file an application, all the nuances, all the tips, tricks, things, you know, the substantive area of law. But what really I'm well known for is the business side. And so, we spend a ton of time in the course on the process of giving a consultation and the questions you're going to be asked and the things that you need to be prepared for, right?

How to give a consult, because you're probably used to giving a family law consult. You know exactly what they're going to ask, you know exactly what to explain, no one's teaching you, or, you know, no one probably is going to teach you how to do it for trademarks, you know, aside from a formal setting like ours. And so, then we spent a lot of time on pricing models, right? So, how to price your services, what makes sense for the different stages? And so, the two pricing models that I teach in the course, and this is what majority of my attorneys and myself included do is you can price per deliverable, so client wants a search, they pay for a search, you do the search.

Let's see the results TBD. And then, if it makes sense, they pay for an application, you do the application, TBD. And then if you get an office action, let's see what it says, and if the client wants to keep with it and keep at it, give them an estimate on what it's going to cost, and so on. That's sort of an a la carte per deliverable. Something that I, I don't know if I invented it, but I definitely am responsible for getting the word out about it is I developed what's called an all-inclusive retainer package years and years ago. I started doing it in my practice.

It worked really, really well, both from an efficiency standpoint, client satisfaction, and of course, revenue standpoint. And I started sharing that. And so a lot of what my attorneys do now is the second pricing model, which is It's an all-inclusive, upfront package that is obviously higher. And in both cases, we're talking flat fees, so famously, we don't do hourly billing in trademarks, which is really nice. So flat fees for a myriad of reasons are so much better lifestyle-wise. And what a package is, is it includes things like the search, the application, office actions if received, one class of USPTO fees, and so on. So, we talk a ton more about that, but that is the two ways to price for trademark services.

Yes, post-registration and deadlines and things like that, we do charge for those renewal and maintenance fees as well Not to keep track of the deadlines, because I feel like that's a little, like, we're not obligated to under the federal rules, but I like to do it as a courtesy, and most attorneys do

Maddy Martin: Great. Okay, I think we're good for now. Thank you so much.

Sonia Lakhany: Okay, yes, of course, of course. Okay, so Let me go back to my slides here

Maddy Martin: Yeah, sure. Oh, Sonya, there was one other question, sorry, about the TAM decision that, like, there was a question about how or if that really changed trademark law related to First Amendment and you know how that may affect trademark approvals, etc.

Sonia Lakhany: I haven't seen a huge impact from it. We've had a number of changes from other things, though. So obviously cannabis is a big area where we're seeing more development of case law as it gets approved on the state level in various states, but obviously when it gets introduced and approved On a federal level, that's going to impact how we do trademark registrations for cannabis-related products. We saw a lot for crypto at one point when that was getting big. AI now is really creating the new wave of differences in development, so not specifically from that case have I seen, but what I just named are some of the other big areas To kind of keep an eye on.

Obviously, AI being the leading one.

Maddy Martin: Great. Thank you.

Sonia Lakhany: Yeah, of course. So, that is a great segue. We talked a little bit about the lifestyle, but I have a very long list of why trademarks are absolutely amazing, and I know I'm biased, because I've been doing them for so long, but I wouldn't have been doing them for so long, and so happily doing them if they weren't so great. And so, just kind of a brief list. Like I mentioned just now, the rise of AI, buckle up, everybody, because it is going to complete... it already is spiking the need for IP attorneys across all the different areas. So, not only within trademarks, but we're gonna have A lot of issues coming our way around NIL, which is name, likeness, image.

So that area of law, trademarking people's voices and their overall appearance and things like that, that's a huge area we're seeing. We're on the cusp of that, and so if any of this is at all interesting to you, I think this is one of those sort of early adopter things, is to get in while it's building, because I think the people that are versed in this area are really gonna have a lot of work coming at us soon. So it's exciting, but also a little bit... it makes me a little nervous of all the work headed your way. It's kind of overwhelming. And so because The practice area allows you to be anywhere, meaning, you know, anywhere in the world with any bar license.

You can also serve clients in any state with any bar license, and so you can be anywhere, and so can they, meaning your reach, as I was mentioning a couple minutes ago, your reach is huge So you're not limited to your state anymore, and so this means that you can really lean into online marketing and content if that's an interest to you, and ads and things like that, because you're able to pull in so much more. And so, what that translates to is An extremely lucrative practice area. And so before AI really started getting big a couple years ago, we were already seeing a huge spike in this practice area because of just the natural rise in entrepreneurship and new businesses that we've seen over the last several years.

So again, anytime there's a business being started or already successful, if there's a name Like, if where there's a name, there is probably a trademark question at least, right? If not a full matter to be served. And so, aside from being able to practice anywhere and aside from your clients can be anywhere as well, as I mentioned, everything is all online. There's no Paper, there's no in-person. That doesn't mean that we don't have such a thing as trademark litigation. Of course, people copy each other's trademarks all the time, and there's issues, but the area of law that I do, that I have built my practice on, and is what I teach, is trademark prosecution.

It's the transactional side. And so, I don't touch litigation, I refer it out Certainly, if you're versed in litigation and enjoy it, that's just another revenue stream. But as far as the scope of what we're talking about today, we're sticking to the filing side. As I mentioned, it's usually flat fee, very low drama, happy clients because they're building businesses This is one of my favorites right now, is that it really does lend itself so nicely to systems and templates, because as I mentioned, the core stages are the same of what you have to do. And what you're telling your clients at each interval, oh, you know, there's an office action issued, here's what it means or your mark hit publication.

Here's... we don't need anything, but here's what that means. You know, this is now happening, right? The updates are very, very formulaic, and obviously it differs because your clients are in different industries, or they're different sized companies, but the trademark process is very, very standard, and so Again, if it's something that you want to do just a little bit of, or you want to really build it out as a full area, you can do as much or as little of it as you want, because the other good thing is that there's no real required overhead to start it either. I know it sounds too good to be true, because it's like, so I don't even need to buy into anything.

Obviously, you need to learn how to do it, which of course I can help a little bit with that And by little bit, I mean a lot with that. But there's no programs, there's no software that you're on the hook for, that you've got to start paying for, and you're like, I haven't even learned how to do this yet, and I already have to do Westlaw and this. That's not the case for us, and so certainly there are tools that can help optimize your practice and make it run smoother But nothing is required and you can add on those things and tools as like with anything in law that if it makes sense and if it's something that you want to do.

But a lot of the tools that we use are things that you would probably use anyway in your law practice. Calendly, for example, right? I mean, you're going to want to schedule calls regardless and not take unscheduled calls and have a calendar. So, things like that. And so you can do as many trademarks or as few as you want. And so, the average Matter value of a new trademark filing package Is usually starts at around$ 500, goes up to$ 5,500, and so if you start to think, oh, two of those a month, three of those a month, I mean, that's a nice, hefty chunk of change, but you start to be able to do the math on how people are getting to$ 50K a month,$ 100K a month, because After your first wave of searches, which then turn into applications usually, right?

That's the revenue from that, then you have revenue from the office actions if you're doing a la carte, if you're doing the package model, you've already been paid that big flat fee up front, and then it's up to you how to execute on these stages and get things done in your scheduling. But then, like I said, you have the built-in repeat work, not only renewals and maintenance, but there's a whole pile of other services that we're able to offer as trademark attorneys to the same client on the same trademark that add more and different types of value. So it really is This Sonia An area that has a lot of revenue potential, and then you're able to start to see the math on how all these attorneys are doing so well.

And so, yes, yes.

Maddy Martin: Before you get into that, let's just go back to the last slide. There are a couple questions. So you mentioned, you know, being, having only one license. So, Darla had a question. Do you need to be admitted to a federal bar in at least one jurisdiction?

Sonia Lakhany: No. No, one bar, any bar

Maddy Martin: Okay, so pick your state of choice, basically. Okay.

Sonia Lakhany: Correct. And if you have any questions about sort of how your individual jurisdiction handles trademarks or federal practice areas in general, I would definitely just call and ask. I mean, the ethics hotlines are something that I think scares a lot of people, but they're there to help. And so if you have any questions and if you're in a jurisdiction where you just want to double check for any reason, you can. But That's the general rule, is that one bar, any bar

Maddy Martin: Okay, and one question for Matt. So how do you handle out-of-state clients? So let's say you're licensed in New York State. How do you handle an out-of-state client regarding the possible existence of state level trademark registrations? Do you advise them to seek attorneys licensed in their state, or do you do state level searches as well?

Sonia Lakhany: That's a good question. Yes, you want to be careful about state-related work, right? Because now we're getting into, we don't want to get into UPL situation. So if it's not your state that the question is arising from, I would definitely seek out local council that you can collaborate with. Usually State trademark registrations are quite a bit more straightforward to search than the USPTO ones. That's why, you know, we're hired usually to do these big comprehensive searches. But the typically state trademarks are run through that state's secretary of State, and so it's probably on a similar tab. So you do what's called a business search to see if there's conflicting LLC, for example, or a corporation.

And similarly, there's usually a tab under the Secretary of State for that. So, what that means is that you could, for sure do a cursory search on your own in order to be able to direct the client in the right direction But also they can, sort of they can take ownership and be able to search for themselves and just show you what they found and things like that. So, yeah.

Maddy Martin: If you're not super networked, you know, across other states where this might be relevant to you, especially maybe in areas where like states are really tight and clustered, I'm thinking Northeast, you know the Virginia, Maryland, DC area, etc. You know, does your network, you know on some of these social groups that you've established help facilitate that? Is that something that you're, you know former students would, you know, benefit from

Sonia Lakhany: Yeah, oh, that's a huge part of what we do. So the trademark attorneys group that I mentioned in the beginning, which I will go back and just quickly Oop, right here. Lower left with my little cursor. If you want a QR code that it'll take you to this screen where you can join our group. We're over 4,000 members and that is precisely one of the many goals I had when I started that community years ago. It's completely free to join, and it's just an area for people to say, oh, I'm looking for someone in this state to help with this, or what about that? But within the closed network of trademark practice.

So if you're not super well networked, you're about to be. So, happy to share. Yeah

Maddy Martin: That's awesome. Great. And then last question is, and this is just a question that came to mind for me. We work with a lot of attorneys at Smith.ai who might break off from a firm and establish their own firm, right? But there are different levels of startup capital that are required depending on your practice area. You know, on one side, trademarks is extremely lucrative as it sounds, but what sort of capital do you need to be working with in order to, you know, get into this practice area? You know, how substantial are those investments?

Sonia Lakhany: Yeah, so that's kind of relates to what I was mentioning just a moment ago is that a lot of law practice areas require you to sign up for all this software. You're on the hook for all this overhead before you've even had a chance to decide if you even like it or not and done a few of them And so that's something that's not the case with trademarks. It is very similar to if someone asked you to draft a contract or to review it. At minimum, you need Microsoft Word. I mean, and you don't even need that for trademarks because everything is through the portal.

So much of it is know-how in your brain. I would say the biggest investment is obviously learning how to do it, and that's either going to be an investment of time, a long one, because are there free resources out there? Absolutely, there's the USPTO itself has tons of little tutorials and snippet videos and, you know, and you could spend hours and hours trying to teach yourself, as many attorneys have done in the past, right? So it's not to say that my program is the only way to do it, but like the goal of any course and program, we're shortcutting that knowledge into a much more condensed timeframe where you're learning it, it's done, and you're able to immediately start profiting and making money versus spending that much longer kind of trial and error and visiting videos and tutorials and things like that.

So, in terms of upfront capital and investment, aside from the time and or money involved in learning this practice area, you're really not looking at a ton of capital to be able to service this area. And like I said, after I think that's really appealing. Sorry?

Maddy Martin: I think that's really appealing for a lot of folks who want to pivot right?

Sonia Lakhany: Yeah, I know, I'm like, it's amazing. It's like you can do a few of them. I don't think I started paying for any software or anything until at least a few dozen marks because one thing that the trademark Office has now, which is so nice And this, you know, I've officially reached that age where it's like back in my day, but when we first started, you know, years and decades ago. Right. You had to keep track of your own deadlines, and now the Trademark Office has an application center, and I go through all of that in the course, but you create a login into your own account as an attorney, and it keeps track of your marks filed for you.

I'm like, I would have killed for that, you know, year one, but that just was introduced over the last year or two, so there's a lot of free resources And I'll talk about this in a moment, too, but we are, we're starting a live version of the course this June, so about a little over a month from now, I teach the course live only every other summer, and between those periods, it is a course self-study and on-demand, so you can watch whenever you want, even if you took the live, you can still watch later But I teach it live every other summer, usually June, July timeframe.

So this year is a re-teach season. The live experience is coming, and that's part of, why, you know, we're meeting today, and for me to share a little bit about this area, but also an opportunity for you to participate in that live course if you are interested. And now with the onset of AI and the very, very rapid development of Claude and all the legal tools, I've been developing a lot of what we call skills and projects within Claude Cowork on the coding side, and that is being integrated into our curriculum. So with the rise of AI, we have so much more that we're able to do, and that includes keeping track of deadlines and any of the tools that you would have had to eventually pay for after hearing me in June, July, you won't even have to pay for those.

So, as a side note, I think we're seeing, definitely a potential disruption to a lot of legal Out there, too.

Maddy Martin: Interesting. Okay. Thank you.

Sonia Lakhany: Oh, I'm on the forefront of it, and I have made it my mission to learn how to optimize Claude for trademarks. So, I mean, the teacher must be able to teach, so that's part of my promise. So, now that we've covered why trademarks are so lucrative, let's talk about a catch, because like you, right, we want to ask the right questions, and one thing I care a lot about is people not entering this practice of law without all the cards in front of them, right? If it were me, I'd want to know And so I think over all these years, I've identified two major catches.

And you may not think of them as catches. I don't really, because to me, I feel like it's worth all the benefits we just talked about. But there's no perfect practice area. And so, number one, the cost of your malpractice insurance is definitely going to be impacted. That has a lot to do with how long you've been practicing and what percentage of your practice that you declare is trademarks. So, if you say 100%, like me, you know, it's going to be a little Right? If you say, especially in the beginning, the practice tip, you know, say it's 10%, 5%, right, because you're starting and you're learning, you might do one or two, and you can gradually increase that amount as reported to your carrier, right?

But that way, you're not paying for a ton up front But it does obviously impact the cost of your malpractice because it's a new practice area that you're insuring. The other one is that you and me, attorneys in the trademark world, we bear the responsibility of educating our potential client base So it's very similar to estate planning in the sense that it's a preventative area of law. It is not a reactive one, right? So family law, very reactive, right? There's already a problem and you're called in to solve it, which is what creates the drama, right? Which creates the unhappiness and the stress But estate planning is also an area that's a happier law, because people are coming with a think-ahead mindset.

They're thinking, okay, this is something that I don't want to become an issue, right? And so let me get ahead of it. And so we joke sort of that trademarks are kind of like a will or a trust But for your brand. And so if you have done any estate planning or you know anyone who does, trademarks plays nicely with most practice areas, but it really plays nicely with estate planning because of that sort of mindset. But that's probably the two major things, is that We are in charge of educating what trademarks even are, right? So if you learned today for the first time what it was, imagine, you know, your laypersons.

And so that is something that we do spend quite a bit of time on, is you have to be able to be comfortable explaining these concepts to your client who's a business owner, and who doesn't realize that they're sitting on a really catchy name, and they need to protect it so that no one else copies it, right? So, I would say those are the two major catches. And so, all that being said, if there was someone to teach you, it would be pretty nice, I would think, to kind of show you the ropes. And so As the Taylor Swift song goes, it's me, hi, I'm the problem, or the solution, as you may think about it.

But this introduces my course, Two Weeks to Trademarks. It is the OG trademark course for attorneys because there really isn't anything else, and that's something that I'm very proud of to have You know, hit almost 10 years next year of strictly teaching this material. And it is not just me, but over the span of our guest instructors, we have a combined total of over 100-plus years of combined trademark law practice before the USPTO And our guest instructors have not one, not two, four ex-USPTO examining attorneys. So the same examining attorneys that are receiving the application and examining it and turning around those office actions are some of the same four people that are teaching on the inside of my program alongside me, because Who better to learn from than the people that are...

were on the very inside? And so all of those four have gone on to create and grow their own very successful practices, and I am very pleased that they have joined me and continue to join me in the different versions of this program. And so this is the only course that will teach you, obviously, how to practice trademark law. But as we touched on, the entire business side of it, right? So how to market this area, how to get clients, how to run the business side. We talked about pricing your trademark services, all the way, the different ways to do that, how to run a consultation, how to create a referral relationship with some of people that are going to see trademarks far more often than you ever will, right?

This is a big, big, huge part of the course. The course itself is probably closer to 60 hours, but in partnership with the ABA, we're able to accredit almost 40 to 50 of those hours in most states, which is an absolutely incredible stack of a little bonus on top of, you know, your time invested. So, not only are you learning a very monetizable skill set, but you're getting CLE credit, quite a bit of it, in return for your time as well And so as I mentioned, the live course starts on June 22nd. I have the schedule ready, but most days start at 1pm Eastern and will go for about 3 hours a day, starting on June 22nd for those next few weeks.

As the name suggests, it is two weeks of trademark It is turning into, quite quickly, closer to 3 or 4, one month to trademarks, as we're joking in our community right now, because of AI and because of the onset of Claude, I'm packing it with quite a few more modules and instruction on how to use AI to start quickly, quickly start monetizing even faster. So, we have far more material than we ever have before, and all of my alumni are, granted a free seat to join the Zoom, so it is a lifetime access investment. Anytime you enroll, you will get those free updates and content forever, as long as I'm alive to teach it, and that's a gift that I give to my alumni.

And so, if you're joining for the first time now, you'll obviously be able to participate in the live, but then to go on. And I think it says something that I've had hundreds and hundreds of attorneys And so many of them have been asking and asking and asking when the replay, when the replays will be available, when the live course starts. This is material they've already seen and learned years and years already, and they're just like, we just like hearing you teach, you have something new, something cool every time. I learn a new tip, a trick, a strategy because I'm very, very open about my knowledge.

There's nothing that I hide, there's no question that's too personal I'm very, very giving in terms of the material. And so, the fact that repeat watchers are so excited to join is something that we're very proud of. And the replay version does get updated as well. I think someone asked about that in the chat. And so, even if you can't make one or more of the lives that are coming during the June timeframe. Of course, we're all busy, we have lots to do. So, every night that we finish, so June 22nd, it will be uploaded for replay. June 23rd, as soon as we finish, uploaded.

And so the idea is that you're able to access your modules whenever you want. We do have a mobile app, which is nice too. You can listen on the go if that's of interest. People do that in their car. I've seen I've had people send me screenshots of them on the treadmill or in the car or whatever, and, the fun perk is that you can also get CLE on the replay, so you don't have to join live because of our partnership with the ABA, and they have been so good to us, so we're very, very thankful. And, like I said, you're learning a very monetizable skill set.

I have been accused, you know, jokingly by some friends that, like, this can't be true, and I'm like, these are very real attorneys doing very real numbers. So, Joey Vitelli had not one, but two 100K months back-to-back last year in 2025, His revenue that year was double the year before, and now this year he's on track to 3X that revenue. Laney Lyons on the right here had her first 100K month right after taking my course. Berkeley Sweet Apple tripled her law firm revenue after my course, then had her first 100K month not long afterward And if you're interested at all, I do interview all of these attorneys on my YouTube channel because I think it's, again, sharing everything we possibly can to get you there too, because there's nothing special about me or about any of these people.

Here's some more. Elizabeth Pickle doubled her firm's revenue, tailored Tiemann created a six-figure practice only after one and a half years There's nothing special except that we're all hard workers, we're all implementers, and we all do the thing. That's it. You know, it really is that straightforward. And so, I've talked quite a bit about what the course covers, but here's just sort of a comprehensive list. It's the entire A to Z of searching, drafting All the substantive law, and then all of the business side, and we pack in templates, handouts, checklists, guides, client communication, scripts, templates. Truly, if there's something that you think you would need, it's probably included.

And on the very 1% off chance that you don't see it, I'll show you where it's located Or we'll create it and put it into your portal. So, this really is intended for you to start from zero, if that's where you are. If you've been kind of experimenting with trademarks, it works too, because the course assumes you know nothing. And then we go from A all the way to Z, and beyond. So, it's very comprehensive, and you don't have to worry about that But you might be worrying about, how am I going to get clients? Put a one in the chat if that is something that you are wondering about.

How are you going to get clients? I would imagine there's a lot of ones, right? Because if it don't make dollars, it don't make sense, right? Who are we doing this practice area for? Yep, that's an important question. And the good news is that there are lots of ways to market this practice area. I mentioned one, which is networking. We hear that one all the time, but that might might be more suited for extroverts, because you're more people, and you get out there more, but what if you're an introvert? What if you're not someone who likes big crowds or going for coffees and lunches? There are so many other closed from the comfort of your home ways to market this practice area without you ever having to leave your laptop.

And so, I'm pleased to be able to teach both sides of how this practice area can look. And depending on your personality, there are certain strategies that will work better for you because you'll enjoy them more. And so this is intended to be a happy area of practice And one of the things that I'll share as a bonus, if you'd like to enroll, is something that I call our marketing personality assessment. And so what you'll take is our assessment, you'll answer some questions about how you're already marketing, what you like to do and not do, and then we will share with you a targeted plan for trademarks that will probably work And not seem so painful How long till I get my first client Oop That slide is not loading for some reason.

How am I going to get clients? How long till I get my first client? Majority of the students in my course retain their first client before the course is even over. So you will make your money back immediately, most likely, and then from then on it's all profit. So like I mentioned, the average value of a new trademark matter is about 35 to 4,500. Aside from the course itself, you have to make sure you get support, right? And so, this course comes with individual calls with me, two of them Part of today's bonus in collaboration with Smith is that you will get double the amount of one-on-one calls, so you'll get four.

So, Batline, just in case you're nervous, you have a question, you didn't understand something, any of those things, you get on my calendar, we'll talk, and it's just us two. You're not outsourced to anybody else, and I'm here for your help. Like I said, we have a Facebook group for just the trademark attorneys that I mentioned earlier, but then we have one for only students of this community, so you'll be able to talk with your classmates and just kind of have that more of an intimate experience I do monthly office hours for free every month, along with a free Zoom training for anyone who's interested on some aspect of trademarks.

And like I said, you get free invitation to any and all course updates. The proof is in the numbers, and this is something that I am very proud of because I can keep going slide and slide from people who are adding 50K, doubling their revenue, 5 to 10 new clients a week from truly just my curriculum. And Hundreds of attorneys at this point who say the fastest, easiest money I've ever made, best investment I've ever made, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow. I mean, hundreds of attorneys cannot be wrong. And so at this point, at nine and a half years of teaching this, I think I've got something pretty decent And so here are some statistics if you're wondering if there's enough trademark work to go around to year-to-date, we've already had over 400,000 applications filed, and we're only in the middle of Q2.

If you want to compare to where we were last year, there was a total of 800,000 something So we saw a 7% increase last year, we're on track to see the same percent this year. So, like I said, it is a growing field. As I mentioned, we are covering AI in quite a bit of depth, so you don't have to worry, there will be several hours of instruction on using Claude for your trademark practice in the upcoming live And if you're scared, please don't be. You have a mentor in me. I am here for you, just like I have been for all the hundreds of other students, and we will make sure that if you meet me with your effort and your implementation, you will be successful.

There's no reason why. And so, if you would like to enroll, I would personally love to work with you. In collaboration with Smith, we are offering you a$ 1,000 promo code off to save with the code SMITH.AI. If you use that QR code, it will take you to our page, you just simply hit enroll and get to that button where the checkout already reflects the discount. All you'll have to do is choose between whether you want CLE or not. It is a little bit cheaper if you don't elect for CLE, obviously And now for the bonuses, if you enroll between now and tonight, so end of day, we will give you not only the marketing personality assessment, so you can decide how you're going to market best and the recommended ways, depending on your personality.

We're also going to give you the 100K blueprint, so all the students that you saw today, plus many, many more that have all hit that 100K a month mark have certain common denominators, and we've studied them. I have them in a packet, and we are sharing that guide with anybody who enrolls between now and end of day today. And then lastly, I will give you, gift you, a file your first trademark prep call. So, in addition to the number of one-on-one calls that you're getting, which is double, right? Instead of two, you're gonna get four. But we also prep your very first trademark, so you're really never gonna be alone in this, because you have someone on your shoulder, on Zoom, and if you need a shoulder or a vent, or just to run by your questions, I am here for you, and we'll make sure that You are successful.

If you need a payment plan, you want to look for this icon at checkout. That'll let you break things up into installments because we want you to be able to join us between now and June 22nd. This is the early bird rate The code will stop working after June 1, but you have some time if you don't want to make a Rust decision. But if you do want any of these bonuses, especially all these calls and the prep sessions, I would say definitely want to take advantage of that

Maddy Martin: Awesome. How much? So yes, I think we're almost at time.

Sonia Lakhany: Yeah, yeah, we almost are Yeah So just last 30 seconds or so, how would you like to And and if No, I appreciate you guys joining, I'm just gonna Leave that there.

Maddy Martin: Yeah If there are questions. Yeah, if there are questions, just please contact Sonya directly. I'm sure you have follow-up questions I can already see in the chat there's a lot of tactical questions, so please get in touch with Sonya through the channels that she's provided here. The full replay will also be sent to you within 24 hours So look forward to that, and we upload all the recordings to our YouTube channel for Smith.ai. So those are always available to you, even if you lose the email. But take advantage of this incredibly generous offer from Sonya, and she put her email in the chat, which is Sonya, S-O-N-I-A at lacanilaw.com For any of your follow-up questions.

So, Sonia, thanks so much for joining us today. This is an incredible opportunity, and I think you know you've made a lot of people feel quite excited and opportunistic, optimistic about You know, what their future could bear

Sonia Lakhany: Oh, thank you for having me. I really appreciate it. I know some of you are probably wanting to ask questions just to be able to make that EOD deadline today if you're thinking about those bonuses. So shoot me an email. I will respond to you right away. That way, if we can clarify your questions today so that you're able to get your answers too, if you'd like to enroll, I'd love to have you. So I don't want anyone to feel rushed. We had a little more questions than normal, so I feel like we rushed a little bit, but I'm here for you afterwards, so please don't, yeah, please don't feel anything.

Maddy Martin: Wonderful. All right, we'll copy that email from the chat or from what I had shared and we will see you all soon. Thanks so much. Take care. Bye. Thank you.